Tuesday, January 15, 2008
Postmodernism Video Response
Please view and respond to the video, "Postmodernism," located on the course webiste at: http://mmcdaniel.jimdo.com/course_media.php. You will be required to respond to at least one other student's comments to successfully complete this assignment. Please ensure that you put your name in parenthesis if you post anonymously.
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13 comments:
Postmodernism is changing the traditional outlook of the church. The traditional church image is not being challenged but being interpreted different way to reach different class, groups and culture. The churches is being applied in a way to fit all walks of life, in a modernized fashion. Some churches are still in the "suit and tie" era, while some are in the casual wear era. The word have always been "come as you are" but there was a reservation to attend the church 20 or 30 years ago in casual attire. We're now stepping outside the norm, we are venturing outside the box.
Darrell Guder from Princeton Theological Seminary puts himself forward as a Theological authority, when in actuality Princeton, Harvard, and Yale are not respected as theological authorities. I fully respect that at one time they were Christian school and trained many preachers; however, no one that I know of would respect Princeton, Harvard, or Yale as Christian schools or as theological anything. Yet they put themselves forward as having something to say about the Christian community when in fact their schools have turned away from the Christian community.
However, they do make a valid point the church has largely been marginalized. I disagree with the reason though. The churches are powerless to act like churches and the Christians are powerless to act like the loving caring body of Christ they are to be. Preachers fall and the entire body suffers. Individuals fall and churches criticize and condemn them instead acting as the body of Christ to love them. Instead we say well everyone has problems, it is no big deal.
One reason is the church has for so long all but given up on Witnessing and training people how to witness. Think when is the last time except for the college any church has had a witnessing program teaching their member how to do any form of witnessing. Even Sunday school teachers are afraid to witness and wait for the preacher to do the preaching. When someone does go witnessing it is the exception and almost made to feel like they should not witness. This comes from the preacher all the way down to the deacons and teachers, much less the general members whom we would almost expect it from.
Darrell Guder from Princeton Theological Seminary made the comment “postmodernism is a complex term for a complex reality. It is characterized by skepticism, and some of the fundamental assumptions and beliefs.” The question is why not. We have churches that can not take a stand for holiness or even doing good much less righteousness. We have abortion clinics three blocks from our churches and the churches can only say what a shame the government should not allow it.
Ed Stetzer said the postmodern “likes Christ that died for sins but not a church that controls the message.” In reality the church does not control the message, the church merely attempts, and however, feebly it is. When the Gospel says “drunkards” will not enter the kingdom of heaven and I do not like it; I should make sure I am not a drunkard not get mad at the church for controlling the message. It is not because the church controls the message it is the church tells what the message is
Ryan Bolger of Fuller Theological Seminary says, “We need to see how Christ can be represented in postmodern cultural forms. Some churches are doing it and it is very exciting.” They imply that every church needs to be having church the way they are. In reality life is quite different in California than in Texas. If we were doing with art and behaving the way many did on the video we would think of them as fruit cakes. California has a different culture than Texas and many other parts of the states I have seen. Maybe in some parts of the world that kind of church works. That would not fly in my church. The church would split and close up.
One person said “the first order of business is to create an environment where people can come, and raise their questions, they can express their doubts, they can harangue at God.” I think our regular Sunday school class should be that kind of environment. People should feel comfortable to come and ask honest open questions without feeling like they will be ridiculed or laughed at for not given the textbook answers. Also our teachers should be trained to handle such questions and not feel like they have to get through the material. It should be the people are more important than the material. (Mark)
I greatly appreciated this video! We see time and time again where Jesus Himself slipped into whatever mode neccessary to spread His truth to vatious people. I see Him fishing on a boat with gross sailor men, sitting in the grass having a picnic, wlaking around with no promise of food or a safe place to sleep, meeting with demonically opressed individuals...and oh my goodness, eating dinner with those dirty Publicans!!! How could He? (please note sarcastic tone.) It seems as if people are bucking this idea because of the fear of changing doctrine. I really like the mans statement when he basically said, we've got to get in with the culture of the people without curving our doctrinal backbone. THANK YOU! Do what is effective for the people serving around you!(Beth M)
Thayer I, agree with beth that we must find a way to institute Jesus into the different Cultures without compromising the word or leaving out the backbone, curving our doctrinal backbone.
I know this isn't my class but I stumbled upon your blog looking for material on cross-cultural missions to show my high school missions class. I just have a couple of thoughtful (I hope) questions:
Do lost people really decide to seek God?
Do lost people really expect to find the absolute truth they're supposedly seeking lying around their usual haunts?
And most importantly, is God's greatest agenda really our deep happiness?
Beth I agree with your idea that we need to go into various venues to share Christ. However I respectfully, respectfully, respectfully, disagree with the suggestion, suggestion, suggestion, that we need to go into the Head shops like the two pictured in the video. (One with the Methuselah head and the other the exotic shop of some kind.)
We need to reach the alcoholics but I am not going into the bars to do it. They need to get out of the bar and sober before I will witness to them. I witnessed to an alcoholic before but I will not do it when they are drunk.
The one shot of a lady painting in church while the worship, music, or preaching was going on I think is distracting. Listen to what I am saying I love it when artists get saved and I enjoy art in church. Yes, I think we even need more art in church, I think the youth and adults alike would benefit from it but everything in its place. I think painting (art of any kind) while, during, in the middle of the service is going on it distracting. If people can concentrate and the worship in that kind of setting, then great. I already do not like the youth talking, writing and passing notes; they say they can concentrate on the sermon too. But they can not tell me what passage of the idea of the message.
This has nothing to do with changing doctrine.
Respectfully, Mark
The video fits me as an individual, in the since that ill do what is needed without changing doctrine to reach a people group for Jesus. Its what Jesus was screaming at us when He came and dwelled among us. Dont become sin to reach sinners, but become humble and creative in reaching people. This theme in church that we have to become like "you" to worship God is the biggest ostacle for reaching people. This postmodernism video should be a video that all lovers of God and lost people should watch. Methods must always be adapting to the culture, but truth never changes
(John Hyman)
Mark I don't understand why we as strong followers of Christ would not go where the sinners are to reach them. Jesus ate with sinners enough said. That has been the problem with Christians for the last few decades, "lets not go where they are (sinners) to reach them, because we don't have the heart of concern for the lost. I am not bashing you just saying look at what is working in the cultures to reach people. What worked last year wont always work this year in reaching people. You have to meet the cultures where there are and show them Jesus in that. Just remember Jesus came into a sinful world to reach sinful people, that should be our mind set as well.
(John Hyman)
I think this is taking compromise a bit far. Yes we need to reach those around us in their language so to speak. When you go to a foreign field you have to learn the language. But this is a little to far. This sounds as though we are to help make the gospel more comfortable. I'm all for staying up with the times in our methods, but not compromising the message. If we are not careful we will find ourselves trying to make the gospel fit the culture to draw people to Christ. It is God who draws people to Himself. We need to reach people where they are. But doesn't change occompany Salvation? In essence I think postmodernism is telling people not to worry for the gospel will conform to meet your needs. Instead we are to be conformed into the image of Christ.
(Meisha Deane)
I agree with Meisha in the sense that we definitely dont want to compromise the message or "sugar coat" what the Word of God says, but I also understand the need to help people understand what the Gospel teaches. I disagree with the statement in the video that people in our culture see the traditional ways of worship as antiquated and out of date... Yes that could be true for some people, but I believe the problem more than anything is the wickedness of this world. People know they should attend church, people know when they're sinning and they know its not acceptable. But they dont pay enough attention to that "sin sensor" that God put in all humans, so when it comes to attending church its just one more thing that isnt a priority. People say we need to step outside the box, but I think we may just need to kneel down inside the box!!! I'll leave with a comment I've heard my dad make for years- "When I was young my other told me to color inside the lines, when I was learning to drive I was told to stay inside the lines of the road, and when I was married they tols me to stay within the "Sanctity House" of my marriage and now people are telling me to go OUTSIDE the box.".
(Adam O'Dell)
I would like to respond to our guest La sra. Cottrell. No I don't think that people are seeking God nor do they expect to find Him in their "usual haunts." If that were true then why then don't the people that frequent the bars find the Lord on their own? We could go into the bar and tell them that all they have to do is accept Christ as thier Savior and they are ok to keep drinking and enjoting life as long as they do so in the name of the Lord. Yes Jesus met people where they were. He spoke with outcasts and undersirables. He drew them to himself, but He did not leave them in the lifestyle He found them in. They followed Him. That means they left behind thier sinful ways and became Christlike.
(Meisha Deane)
Darrell Guder stated that Postmodernism is a "complex term for a complex reality". With that in mind I believe ultimately we have to rely on the Holy Spirit and the Word of God for answers. I don’t know when and at what point we thought that our reasoning took precedence over the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit and of the Word of God. We are now in an era of a mass revolution, where people’s process of thinking has evolved creating multiple diverse philosophical solutions to every problem in our society. This is happening all over the world, but how do we proclaim the Truth with the confidence that it will be effective? How do we develop a process of discipleship that will be successful? This is where our dependency on the Holy Spirit and the Word of God becomes real. I’m just considering another perspective.
(Trey Hyman)
I respect Beth's response, reaching people without changing the Message. Obviously this is problem within most churches on large scale. There’s a lot to consider when addressing this problem; stubbornness, pride, lack of love, lack of service, and the list goes on and on. We need to implement what Christ teaches in His Word and be led by the Holy Spirit; these two key principles are why the Apostles were so effective.
(Trey Hyman)
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