Monday, February 4, 2008
Changing Face of Worship - Louisville Response
Please view and respond to the video, "Changing Face of Worship - Louisville," located on the course webiste at: http://mmcdaniel.jimdo.com/course_media.php. You will be required to respond to at least one other student's comments to successfully complete this assignment. Please ensure that you put your name in parenthesis if you post anonymously.
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34 comments:
From experiencing the Louisville culture we believe that Sojourn has done a great job in appealing to the youth of this age and keeping them focused and interested in what's going on in the church. They make everyone feel comfortable, as in they don't discriminate by how you dress or what you do, everyone is accepted. It's not so much how things look or how things are done, it's about what they teach and how biblically sound the church is. The point is to come as you are and leave changed in Christ and we believe they successfully do that. (Brittany Hancock, Alexandra Smith, Leesha Heitzman from Whitefield Academy, Louisville, Ky)
I think that Sojourn has an overral effective message although I have never visited the church, but we are planning on visiting the church. I wish they would have said more about the cultivate beauty month in the video because it didn't seem to have much of a spiritual purpose to it.
There is also a church called New Vision in Louisville which has the slogan "A church for people like you." They have a huge poster in one of our malls that has a picture of a pregnant, unmarried woman, a man with tatoos and a mohawk, an old woman, and a man whose dressed like a thug. The point they are trying to make is that you can come as you are which is true, but it's a very risky message to send out to the world that is lost because you have to be willing to change also. Church shouldn't be a comfortable place to go, it should be a place that you are convicted to change but a hope in Jesus. They also had a sermon series called "Girls Goin' Wild" which is crossing the line into compromise, in my opinion.
http://www.newvisionministrycenter.org/ This is the website for New Vision church if you would like to look further into it.
Alex and Lizzie from Louisville, Kentucky.
I think that this is a good church for people who are,lets say, a little rough around the edges in their style of dress for example. Or if they would be uncomfortable in a traditional church. In my opinion, if the pastor preaches from the Word of God and not from his own beliefs or views, then I think that it is a good church to go to. This is what I think about Sojourn.
Canaan from Louisville
I've been going to Sojourn pretty regularly. I love it there! They really are a church about Christ and His work. I took my mom to the church a few months ago. She claimed it was the most Biblically rooted church she has ever attended. The services are really enjoyable as well. They're music is really good. A lot of it is orignal work with a few hymns thrown in. You can listen to their music at www.sojournmusic.com . Right now at Sojourn, they're going through Romans. You should check out their website at www.sojournchurch.com . They have past sermons on there.
I belive that Sojourn is effective in reaching out to those in our culture, here in Louisville, because in a way, I think that they are becoming 'all things to all men so that they may save some'. I think that Sojourn is a good idea, because it provides those in our local culture with a place to go to learn about and to worship our Lord, Jesus Christ.
I think that the people do not feel out of place, because there are so many different types of people represented at Sojourn. This makes each person feel more comfortable with being in church to worship Christ.
In Louisville, there is a large variety of different types of people. Many people here, and in other places in the USA, are intimidated by going to a church that is filled with people who are from the backgrounds and social levels.
Tarra (Louisville)
I haven't lived in Louisville very long--about 7 months--but I've already found the Christian culture here very curious. The Louisville metro area is the 17th largest city in America. It's known as "the best college sports town in America" and it's a seminary town. There are at least five Bible colleges and seminaries here, including a major Presbyterian seminary and that denomnation's headquarters, and the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, one of the SBC's most theologically conservative seminaries, led in that direction by Albert Mohler and Russell Moore. It's definitely a seminary town. When people find out my husband is at the seminary, I can almost see them calculating in their heads how much time I'll be a part of their lives.
Because of the seminary, the city's churches, especially the conservative ones, are flooded with young single men, couples, and families headed for some type of ministry and ready to take on the world and its doctrinal errancies. You'll find your usual megachurches here. One of the girls who commented (Lizzie) is a member of the largest church in Louisville, Southeast Christian, which we jokingly call "Six Flags over Jesus." I think their auditorium seats seven or eight thousand. There are also large churches, in the many hundreds or a thousand range, as well as smaller, quieter churches. And then there are churches like Sojourn--kept on the "straight and narrow", so to speak, by a desire to know God's Word deeply and not compromise, but also driven to reach those who aren't reached by the preachy seminary atmosphere.
There are quite a few seminary students who attend Sojourn and enjoy it a lot. They emphasize the arts and beauty quite a bit. I wondered about where their emphasis was falling in relation to where it should be, but a young seminary friend of ours (whose opinion we respect) said, "Their theology is rock solid."
Honestly, I think my husband would be uncomfortable there. He comes from a liturgical American Baptist background in New England, and their acclimation to the culture would be disconcerting to him. But the questions are a difficult one facing my class, and apparently yours as well: how much do preferences count? when are we so desperate to be accepted by the masses that we're willing to look just like them, not called out, not separate, not peculiar? and on the other hand, when are we so stuck on what we've always done, and what our parents told us was the way it's done, that we're missing out on the blessing of reaching the lost for Christ because we're not even speaking their language?
--Sara-Elizabeth (Missions teacher)
Postmodern culture do have its own language. And the Church should learn to be versatile with its language. We are the "Melting Pot" here in America, so well diverse with our culture and language. Incarnating the Gospel in these language and culture without compromising the contentsof the Gospel is commended. Highlands Douglass Neighbohood,culture aware neighborhood, is the idea setting for a Postmodern Church, an emerging church. Sojourn rents an original Jewish Synagogue building, how can you match that. This different community demands a different way of conducting church. The different walks of life that its members makes-up is amazing. The presence of urban professionals with other labor workers and common workers cannot be denied. Its important to be intergrated with different economical and social clases. The comfort to praise God with no reservation because of the closeness they feel is genuine Christian Love. "The truth is biblical truth and it's taught clearly and accurately," sums up everything. No matter where the setting is - the truth is everywhere and can stand SOLO. "Kill you TV month!" Good for them, not me though, unless its an old black/white, but if that helps their community congeal - I'm cool with it.( hayer Lawson)
Ed Stetzer says we have to realize we are missionaries to this culture. Amen
We need diverse peoples in our churches. I agree I would like to see many cultures represented on our churches. Consider, black and white worship in the same church, along side Asians, and Pacific-islanders, and Europeans worshiping in my church or your church this is cross culture ministry. Instead we make a big deal about me and mine, you and yours. (Not talking about accepting drums or skateboards.) If that is what you think raise your sights.
Sean Fawbush says he could have been skateboarding down the street. Just walk right in sweaty dirty, carrying a skateboard, sat down and it would have been alright, would have been alright. I’m glad the church should not have kicked him out; however, I would question someone who would not come into the presence of a holy God without at least a shower. I understand if the skateboard was his primary mode of transportation, some third world countries it maybe (that might be acceptable) or he lived many miles away (that might be acceptable). However, I got the impression that was not the case. People want to come into the God’s house with their head held high and proud, instead humbly and their knee bent humbly before their God. My argument is not about the skateboard, but about the Holy God he is coming in the presence of.
I think he needs to define his terms “edgy” – what do you term as edgy? The church is edgy, people are edgy, the music is edgy, but not the Truth?
The preacher, if he can be called that, said “God’s greatest agenda was not our surface level happiness but our deep happiness, at the core of who we are.” If we acknowledge that God never changes then God’s greatest agenda of our deep happiness, at the core of who we are, never changes. See where I am going. His God failed eleven disciples out of twelve. (I don’t know any one with that kind of failure rate.) That then qualifies his god for lower case g not the God of the Bible. Because if God is ultimately concerned about our deep happiness ‘and never changes’ then explain the eleven out of twelve martyrs who died for their faith. Was that their deep happiness at the core of their being? (What about the thousands of other martyrs or shouldn’t I ask that.)
Annual kill your TV month? Turn off the TV or unplug it, that is fine, good, I even support that but to smash the TV. The intent is to get away from the TV. I agree there is a lot of junk on the TV we need to get away and spend time with each other or build communities. The intent was not to get rid of the TV for good but temporary. It seems like you then have to go out and purchase another TV after the month is over. For that matter, computers come between people and there’s a lot of garbage on computers so let’s have a kill the computer month to reconnect with each other.
Mark TX
Ed Stetzer says we have to realize we are missionaries to this culture. Amen
We need diverse peoples in our churches. I agree I would like to see many cultures represented on our churches. Consider, black and white worship in the same church, along side Asians, and Pacific-islanders, and Europeans worshiping in my church or your church this is cross culture ministry. Instead we make a big deal about me and mine, you and yours. (Not talking about accepting drums or skateboards.) If that is what you think raise your sights.
Sean Fawbush says he could have been skateboarding down the street. Just walk right in sweaty dirty, carrying a skateboard, sat down and it would have been alright, would have been alright. I’m glad the church should not have kicked him out; however, I would question someone who would not come into the presence of a holy God without at least a shower. I understand if the skateboard was his primary mode of transportation, some third world countries it maybe (that might be acceptable) or he lived many miles away (that might be acceptable). However, I got the impression that was not the case. People want to come into the God’s house with their head held high and proud, instead humbly and their knee bent humbly before their God. My argument is not about the skateboard, but about the Holy God he is coming in the presence of.
I think he needs to define his terms “edgy” – what do you term as edgy? The church is edgy, people are edgy, the music is edgy, but not the Truth?
The preacher, if he can be called that, said “God’s greatest agenda was not our surface level happiness but our deep happiness, at the core of who we are.” If we acknowledge that God never changes then God’s greatest agenda of our deep happiness, at the core of who we are, never changes. See where I am going. His God failed eleven disciples out of twelve. (I don’t know any one with that kind of failure rate.) That then qualifies his god for lower case g not the God of the Bible. Because if God is ultimately concerned about our deep happiness ‘and never changes’ then explain the eleven out of twelve martyrs who died for their faith. Was that their deep happiness at the core of their being? (What about the thousands of other martyrs or shouldn’t I ask that.)
Annual kill your TV month? Turn off the TV or unplug it, that is fine, good, I even support that but to smash the TV. The intent is to get away from the TV. I agree there is a lot of junk on the TV we need to get away and spend time with each other or build communities. The intent was not to get rid of the TV for good but temporary. It seems like you then have to go out and purchase another TV after the month is over. For that matter, computers come between people and there’s a lot of garbage on computers so let’s have a kill the computer month to reconnect with each other.
Mark TX
Kendall
You have one advantage over us down here, in that you can go first hand and see it. If my blog gets posted you see I did not care for it. All I can do is judge it from a roughly five minute clip. Advice if I can, go with an open mind but a discerning one too. Remember, Act 17:11 “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
Mark TX
Lizzie
Don’t worry about the ribbing. My son works at the real “Six Flags Over Texas”.
Mark TX
Lizzie
Don’t worry about the ribbing. My son works at the real “Six Flags Over Texas”. LOL
Mark TX
Canaan from Louisville
I think I am picking up your spirit in what you said. I agree too. Except I would not be able to go there myself. You understand.
Mark TX
Postmodern culture has its own language, and the Church must learn to be versatile with its language. America is known as the “Melting Pot,” so well diverse with its culture and language. Incarnating the Gospel in these languages and culture without compromising the contents of the Gospel is essential.
Highlands Douglass Neighborhood, culture aware neighborhood, idea setting for a Postmodern Church, emerging Church. Renting an original Jewish synagogue building is a statement in itself. This community demands a different way of conducting Church, Sojourn church is the idea choice for that environment. The different walks of life that its member’s make-up is amazing. The presence of urban professionals with other labor workers and common workers cannot be denied. It’s important to be integrated with different economical and social classes. The comfort to praise God with no reservation because of the closeness they feel is genuine Christian Love. “The truth is biblical truth and is taught clearly and accurately” sums up everything. No matter where the setting is – the truth is everywhere and can stand SOLO. “Kill your TV month!” Good for them, not me though, unless its and old black/white, but if that helps their community congeal – I’m cool with it. (Thayer Lawson)
Postmodern culture has its own language, and the Church must learn to be versatile with its language. America is known as the “Melting Pot,” so well diverse with its culture and language. Incarnating the Gospel in these languages and culture without compromising the contents of the Gospel is essential.
Highlands Douglass Neighborhood, culture aware neighborhood, idea setting for a Postmodern Church, emerging Church. Renting an original Jewish synagogue building is a statement in itself. This community demands a different way of conducting Church, Sojourn church is the idea choice for that environment. The different walks of life that its member’s make-up is amazing. The presence of urban professionals with other labor workers and common workers cannot be denied. It’s important to be integrated with different economical and social classes. The comfort to praise God with no reservation because of the closeness they feel is genuine Christian Love. “The truth is biblical truth and is taught clearly and accurately” sums up everything. No matter where the setting is – the truth is everywhere and can stand SOLO. “Kill your TV month!” Good for them, not me though, unless its and old black/white, but if that helps their community congeal – I’m cool with it. (Thayer Lawson)
Postmodern culture has its own language, and the Church must learn to be versatile with its language. America is known as the “Melting Pot,” so well diverse with its culture and language. Incarnating the Gospel in these languages and culture without compromising the contents of the Gospel is essential.
Highlands Douglass Neighborhood, culture aware neighborhood, idea setting for a Postmodern Church, emerging Church. Renting an original Jewish synagogue building is a statement in itself. This community demands a different way of conducting Church, Sojourn church is the idea choice for that environment. The different walks of life that its member’s make-up is amazing. The presence of urban professionals with other labor workers and common workers cannot be denied. It’s important to be integrated with different economical and social classes. The comfort to praise God with no reservation because of the closeness they feel is genuine Christian Love. “The truth is biblical truth and is taught clearly and accurately” sums up everything. No matter where the setting is – the truth is everywhere and can stand SOLO. “Kill your TV month!” Good for them, not me though, unless its and old black/white, but if that helps their community congeal – I’m cool with it. (Thayer Lawson)
Postmodern culture has its own language, and the Church must learn to be versatile with its language. America is known as the “Melting Pot,” so well diverse with its culture and language. Incarnating the Gospel in these languages and culture without compromising the contents of the Gospel is essential.
Highlands Douglass Neighborhood, culture aware neighborhood, idea setting for a Postmodern Church, emerging Church. Renting an original Jewish synagogue building is a statement in itself. This community demands a different way of conducting Church, Sojourn church is the idea choice for that environment. The different walks of life that its member’s make-up is amazing. The presence of urban professionals with other labor workers and common workers cannot be denied. It’s important to be integrated with different economical and social classes. The comfort to praise God with no reservation because of the closeness they feel is genuine Christian Love. “The truth is biblical truth and is taught clearly and accurately” sums up everything. No matter where the setting is – the truth is everywhere and can stand SOLO. “Kill your TV month!” Good for them, not me though, unless its and old black/white, but if that helps their community congeal – I’m cool with it. (Thayer Lawson)
Y'all seem really caught up on the Kill the TV month and it formerly being in a Jewish synagogue, but then again that's all you've really seen. I have never heard of the TV thing, but I'll have to ask about it. Sojourn is no longer in a Jewish synagogue; they're now in their own building. I think it would help if you check out their website to see a little further into who they are.
I've grown up going to a Southern Baptist church. I find Sojourn more Biblical than the church I attend on Sunday mornings. The people at Sojourn really desire to reach the culture, but they are at no means ready to compromise with truth. Sojourn still seems pretty traditional. They stand in respect when Scripture is read. Like I had said in my previous post, they sing hymns. They have the Lord's Supper every Sunday. I think that a lot of it is based in catholic traditions.
The area that Sojourn is in is very diverse and eclectic with the skateboarders and hardcore type people. People that would find the traditional churches very unattractive. I think you need to accomodate to today's culture in order to be affective. We need to be in the world, but not of it.
Thanks Mark for the advice.
Mark, Please tell me how I am misinterpreting these passages of Scripture…
I Corinthians 6:19, “WHAT? Know ye no that your BODY is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you…”
James 2:1-9, "My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of he kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."
In Matthew 9:12, Jesus says, “They that be whole need not a pphysician, but they that are sick.”
Matthew 7:1-5, “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
Since when do we enter the presence of God as soon as we grace the presence of a church building? I see that we are as it has been termed “walking tabernacles.”
We are told to love all…not try to change them…that’s a Holy Spirit thing! Who are we to possibly try to determine how one should clothe themselves before entering a church gathering place? Going by your ideology, we would more quickly accept the pimp who came out of the hoar house before we would accept the boy who just came from basketball practice after school and is in a uniform and sweaty…because he should have showered first.
The church is not a relaxation center for the Saints. It is a hospital for Sinners…like US!
I don’t know about you, but I know that I mess up all of the time. I dare not try to discern what another Believer is or is not doing compared to what they should or should not be doing in regulation to MY personal opinion.
If we could just start focusing on proclaiming the Gospel to all and QUIT trying to conform people to our way of personal life…so much could be accomplished for the cause of CHRIST! But no…we’d rather balk at the silly stuff? (Bethany, Tx)
I am glad to hear that so many people are coming to Christ through this ministry! Cultivate beauty Month....cool idea...but where's the Biblical application? I didn't catch it...but it's still a cool idea! Their idea of community and people centered ministry is Awesome! I love it :)I wish more could grasp this concept! How greeat it could be! As long as they are Biblically sound...Rock On Sojourn! (Bethany, Tx)
“Today in North America we are in a missions setting and we are missionaries to this culture.”- Ed Stetzer. This statement is foundational to the way we view the people we are trying to reach. America is in great need of missionaries in its own backyard. How are we going to reach people that have a negative viewpoint on the traditional church? I would venture to say that there are people attending Sojourn that would not attend a traditional church. In this simple fact one can see that Sojourn is reaching people that might not otherwise be reached. The most important thing is that though methods change the message of the gospel must not.
The diversity found in the congregation of Sojourn is very encouraging. This is one area that I believe the church has failed in. Most churches today are filled with people that come from the same general background and culture. Very few congregations are truly diverse in the economic, social, and ethnic cultures.
I have a concern with the gentleman who said that he could come to church all sweaty and dirty and it would be alright. With whom is it alright, himself, the congregation, the pastor, or is it God with whom he should find favor? I think we must be careful to remember that God is the reason we are gathering together for worship. Our ultimate purpose is to glorify Him. I understand his though process on this, that he can come to God as he is. How true it is! God does not look on the outward appearance, but on the heart, 1 Samuel 16:7 “for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.”
(Meisha Deane, Tx)
Maybe someone can help me with something.
Bethany made the statement the church is a hospital for Sinners. (I know it is not an exact quote.)
I understand what she meant when she said it. I’ve said it myself many times. It is an old saying that has been around for years.
For the theologs reading this, I know the church is the people, and we can worship without going to the church brick building, however, drawing the parallel of the church, as a brick building, representing the synagogue from scriptures… One thing that has been on my heart lately, is wouldn’t it be scripturally correct to say the “church is for worship”. The hospital for sinners could be anyplace we happen to sit down with them and counsel or some other way help them with their spiritual needs? I say this because the spiritual healing can and probably should take place wherever we happen to be. Then we go to church to worship.
Any ideas???
Mark TX
After reading over the posts on this blog I am deeply concerned. I am a devout attendee of Sojourn and I volunteer my time with a Subculture ministry here in Louisville. I have holes in my ears stretched to 1 inch in diameter and I dress, as some would call it, "alternative." In no means of attack, I would like to address the post made by Mark from TX.
The first thing I have to say is about the message of my church. Sojourn is rooted deeply in community and focuses solely on the Word. I don't understand your attack on the validity of Daniel's teaching. The part about Fawbush saying he would be comfortable walking off the street has nothing to do with him feeling like he can be as dirty as he wants in the presence of G-d, it was about comfort. We believe in taking people as they are and ministering to them in order to bring them to a point of a true and lasting relationship with Christ. By "edgy" it just means that the service is more oriented to the people in our modern culture, it is just the style in which we represent the body of Christ.
Sojourn teaches that we, as the body, are Sojourn and we just happen to meet in the 930 (our building). In this way we see our entire lives and interaction with our community as ministry points. Sojourn is biblically sound and rooted solely in the Word, that's it. We welcome all people and are here to represent our Lord in all we do.
As for the Kill Your TV thing. The smashing of the TV is just a physical representation of one disconnecting with material things and embracing creation and the gifts we've been given. The TV's are old and broken already, by the way. Seriously though, check the website and tell me what you think. Thanks again, G-d Bless.
Yeah man I totally understand. I have grown up in devout Christian family but my church is probably not what you would consider a traditional church. We are pretty free-spirited about worshipping God although we don't get crazy and dance through the aisles. So I've grown up with a "worship-in-whatever-way-you-want" kind of spirit that might not be very popular in your tradtitional church. The style of dress in my church is not one of suits and dresses. We would much rather wear jeans and t-shirts than suits and dresses any day. Most of the adults wear nicer stuff but the teens wear just casual street clothing. But we strongly believe in teaching straight from the Word of God and also believe in not being a comfortable church to just sit and rot every Sunday. That's pretty much my church in a paragraph. Thanks for responding to my previous comment.
Canaan from Louisville
i think that what they are trying to do with Sojourn is good...i say that becuz it makes the people attending feel more comfortable.....wut i mean by that is...its not like your ordinary church where u wear nice clothes and it is very classy..it makes them feel more comforatble where they can wear wut they want and not feel out of place......but in my opinion is that as long as you are honoring and worshiping God....y does it mater where u do it.....or wut u are wearing at the time......but i dont think it should be said that it doesnt feel like church.........
I think a standard needs to be agreed upon. One standard might be 9 Marks.
Other helpful worship standards can be found here.
Once biblical standards are found, churches can be evaluated by them.
The narrator spoke right to the heart of the issue when she said, "Speak their language, without compromising the message" That is the key to evangelism and to all ministries within our local churches. The truth never changes, but our culture is constantly changing therefore our method of sharing the truth should also be changing to adapt to the changing culture. I have heard it said," We cannot reach today's culture,.with 1590's methods" I come from a very conservative background, which frowns on changing our methods. Over the passed year, I have been forced to question my own bias developed from my"conservative background" I have BEGAN to come to the realization that some churches'' methods may be a little different and that is okay, as long as their bold stand for the truth has not been altered or compromised And as long as their Christian lifestyle has not been altered or compromised either.
The music and worship style at Louisville is not what some of us are used to in church, but is it unbiblical? I think many times we develop OUR way of doing Church and set it as the standard, when the WORD of God is the standard.
I think the idea of shutting our technology off for a month and engaging in something that is "GOD GIVENINGLY BEAUTIFUL" Would be very beneficial to my life.
In conclusions, this is not my kind of Church and from what little we see I do not know if they are "Speaking their language, without compromising the message" If their doctrine is wrong, their worship is vain
First I want to say, ever since I made the post everyone was afraid I had started a war between Kentucky and Texas. So, I want to say on behalf of all of Texas thank-you for sparing the entire state. My family thanks you for sparing my life too, my insurance is not paid up yet. Sorry that was my attempt at humor; guess I won’t quit my night job. Seriously everyday I heard something about it. I thought Poached Pastor had gone out of style and Minced Mark Meat had now come in vogue for the afternoon meal.
Thank-you for clarifying the video for me. All I had to go on was the five minute clip, which was misleading on some points. I’m sorry if I frightened you. I did not want to simply attack outright. I wanted to state with specific facts what I liked and disliked of it.
First, it sounded like the one guy could and does feel perfectly comfortable coming to church dirty and sweaty, not just that the church would accept him as he is. I think the church should accept anyone who comes in. We have some teens come to the Sunday night service in t-shirts, and we accept them just as they are. We even had a gay person visit our church in hot pink leotards, as far as I know, the only one he talked to was the pastor, but he never returned. The gay person that is, never returned.
I do wish someone would have responded clearly about the pastors preaching. It sounded real clearly like from the ninety second clip that he preaches a prosperity message, listen to just the clip again and I think you see what I mean. That basically reduces God to an “I Dream of Jeanne” God. We simply rub God name in prayer and He gives us anything we desire. That is a pet peeve of mine. Sure I believe in answer to prayer but that is not the same thing at all to me.
Everyone says the church is doctrinally sound. I am glad, but to tell you the truth it does not mean that much to me. Let me explain, that is because I have yet for anyone to tell me “No, my church is not doctrinally sound, my church is messed up.” I have never had anyone tell me that, or “I do not like my church.” So I guess the only way I can make that decision is to decide for myself if I think it is sound. I will try to listen to the website myself. Tell you the truth though it won’t be this weekend though because I have too much homework in my classes.
Thank-you for telling me about the smash the TV event. I thought it was just like the way the video presented it and that was that the members all donated their TV’s to be smashed. I thought it was like when teenagers get convicted about their music and one night get together and destroy their music. It looked like the members in order to reconnect to each other and strengthen their families they each year smashed their TV’s. Tell you truth later this year with the high definition TV being mandatory you may find more and more people donating their old TV’s for smashing.
I do have one question though; I noticed you did it twice. Instead of spelling out “God” you did “G-d”. Why was that? The only other person I know that does it is a personal conviction of his. Like the Old Testament Jews could not pronounce the name of “Yahweh”. The first time I ignored it thinking it was a typo. Like I said I noticed you did it twice. Why?
Mark TX
Beth, I agree with what you said, “We are told to love all…not try to change them…that’s a Holy Spirit thing!” Isn’t that what this class is all about? We are to reach people for Christ not change them for Him. When a person comes to the house of God they are coming to worship Him and hopefully not coming to a fashion show. However I must say that Christians should dress modestly, but that is to be done every day of the week in every place. We cannot expect the lost world to conform to our way of dress and preferences. The Holy Spirit is the one to convict the hearts of people. He draws them to Himself and then He conforms them to His image not our image. I’m afraid that is what many churches are trying to do. We need to reach people where they are and let the holy Spirit do His work.
(Meisha Deane)
I would say that this Louisville church is definitely teetering on the edge of being part of the culture and being against culture... They tell you to unplug your tv, but not so you can go out and evangelize the lost they want you to do something for yourself like try poetry or painting... How in anyway does that help you as a person? I understand the need for a release but replacing culture with a semi-less abrasive form of culture doesnt seem to get the job done.
My question isn't if the church is biblical or not because the word of God leaves so much room for your own "style" of worship but my question would be is it effective? I've never been a huge fan of the "come as you are and leave as you were" mentality... Im a huge proponent of the fact that Christ loves everyone no matter their dress or hair style but I also believe that God made it clear that we need to come out from among them and be ye separate!!! These "Sojourners" think they need to show others the common entities that they share with one another but why would anyone want to accept Christ if theyre going to be stuck the same way they were? Whether we like to believe it or not people desire a change in their life, that is something that God stamped on our heart from the beginning!
(Adam O'Dell
The culture that exists in Kentucky is a culture that I view myself fitting in very well with. In this video, members and non-members said that truth is taught clearly and accurately. So, the issue of them not teaching truth is not an issue at all. Pastor Daniel has a vision to reach the immediate culture that surrounds him with the Gospel. I think that it is pretty awesome that they meet in an old Jewish synagogue. Off topic, but I just wanted to point that out. Sojourn is a church that is reaching, that is seeing, and that is moving with the truth. The church understands the best way for them to reach their culture. Coming across "edgy," as Nathan Quillo says in the video, would probably describe me. I definitely have every intention to visit Sojourn.
(John Hyman, ABC)
Thayer-
I enjoyed your input on Sojourn. When I read your comments, I see a person that totally, 100% recognizes the need for change in our approach at presenting the Gospel. I think that you understand that this video is completely biblical. Teaching truth clearly and accurately is probably the biggest factor of a church, and Sojourn does exactly that. I loved your quote, "truth can stand solo." That shows the power of God. He can stand alone. TV smashing month, with black and white tvs, I believe, too, is the best way to endorse that month. Color ones are just too expensive. Haha.
(John Hyman, ABC)
With reviewing the listed blogs I get a sense that the video gives a different perspective than some that actually attend Sojourn. My thought is, as an autonomous church there are some principles that are implemented that may differ from another autonomous church. As you study the Scriptures you’ll begin to examine that we use the early church as a model for a functioning structure with various practices and ordinances that are Biblically sound. I do believe that within any culture, whether domestic or foreign, the church must establish a culture that lines with what the Scriptures teach. If the Bible teaches to be modest in apparel, then one must uphold that truth. Christ sets the standard, we must conform to it.
(Trey Hyman)
Meisha,
I do think you’re accurate when you said, “most churches today are filled with people that come from the same general background and culture. Very few congregations are truly diverse in the economic, social, and ethnic cultures.” I think we have a pre-set notion of what a Christian should be. When people with a different appearance walk in our church, we immediately write them off as different and “untouchable”, we keep our distance and of course this makes them uncomfortable. Part of this problem is fueled by the lack of experience that our church members have with personal evangelism and discipleship. What we should think when we see the opportunity to reach the lost for Christ, regardless of appearance, is that Jesus loves them the same as He loved us. Who are we to think His love is limited to those who appear to have a Christian faith. He shows no partiality and we should follow His example.
(Trey Hyman)
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