Monday, February 11, 2008
Changing Face of Worship - Minneapolis
Please view and respond to the video, "Changing Face of Worship - Minneapolis," located on the course webiste at: http://mmcdaniel.jimdo.com/course_media.php. You will be required to respond to at least one other student's comments to successfully complete this assignment. Please ensure that you put your name in parenthesis if you post anonymously.
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14 comments:
Minneapolis
Solomon’s Porch, Pastor Doug Pagitt.
I applaud Solomon’s Porch in their community atmosphere. It is really what many churches are trying to attain I think, in my opinion. I am afraid to me it really seemed like they had church centered around the community and not to worship by having the church in the motif of a home. But aside from that it was great. I even like the music. I think many churches could learn from this kind of environment. I wonder if we could do something similar but have the church look like a church, and have the fellowships centered around the church. Maybe they did and I did not see it. I looked several times and sometimes I thought I saw it, sometimes not.
Jim and Carla Barnhill bringing in Chris Dyson to live with them is, however, over the top. Developing community between members is great but I think this is the wrong application of the concept. Jim and Carla are a beautiful young couple and Chris is a pretty lady herself. Jim was right saying it was a no-brainer. I am glad that love is more than a concept to them. I would have huge theological problems here. I think it is great they want to help but I disagree that this is the way.
I also wonder why the pastor did not dissuade the arrangement, maybe he is not aware of it. This can not help but give the wrong impression to the community. To me, I think this would also ruin the testimony of the church, in my opinion.
Mark A.
I feel as though I am continuously repeating myself. The Bible does tell us of how Jesus “intentionally” went out into other cultures to reach people. He did not come to this earth set up a church and just wait for people to come to Him. He went in search of them. Once they believed in Him He commanded them to follow Him. The statement made in this video of not tweaking the church service, but creating communities that live the Christian life twenty-four seven sounds good. This is what God desires His children to do; live the Christian life twenty-four seven. The problem is His people are not really doing it. If we were we would be reaching people everywhere every day. The lost world would see the Light of Christ in us and would desire to know Him and believe on Him. We do not need to set up communities to do this we just need to live this in our own communities and reach out beyond our culture.
I am all for fellowship and enjoying each other’s company. The problem I have with Solomon’s Porch was that they do not call themselves a church nor do they want to be known as such for it would “box them in.” When Jesus established the church it was for the edifying or the saints. The saints are then to go out in to the world every day and witness to the lost. There are many people that come to church and believe on Christ, yet we seem to be making that the focus of the church. It is one on one evangelism that needs to be done. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that we should not bring the lost to church. I am saying that we need to go out and God will draw them to Himself. The church was designed to edify and train God’s people. We need to let His light shine outside the walls of the church.
(Meisha Deane)
Meisha,
I did not see what you did about the church. I thought they were about evangelizing as well, but instead of bringing them to “church” they bring the “prospect” to a place with a setup of a “home motif”.
Doug Pagitt pastor of Solomon’s Porch has written his own book where he redefines preaching. I obviously did not buy it. However, I got the idea he was redefining preaching itself. I idea is he is wanting to tell (or share) scripture instead of preach. I read he thinks we do too much preaching and not enough relating of scripture.
The second time watching the video I noticed and obvious absents of the Bible. I did not see anyone reading from the Bible, nor anyone (that I saw) even had a Bible. Then when I saw he had a book out wanting to redefine preaching, I wonder what he believes about preaching from the Bible, especially in light of his book.
I was tempted to look for a denomination or something but I deliberately stopped myself (Bro. Mark would be pleased that I tried to behave myself.) I read (on the front cover) they consider themselves “Holistic Missionary”. I had to ask myself how they in fact support missionaries? Don’t know, although I am sure they do.
Mark
Mark,
Why do you see the Barnhill’s being in the wrong? I am curious as to what you see wrong with it. My only issue with it was that the possible temptation of Jim with two women being in the house. It may not be the best dynamic for American culture, but there are many families all over the world that live in the same house. In Ukraine for instance there are two and three families living together in the same apartment. This is largely due to the fact that they cannot afford their own homes. I believe that was the case with Chris Dyson. I would also like to know where the theological problem is. Does the Bible teach there is to be only one family per house? My problem is a single woman living in the house of a couple, yet I’m not sure it is truly scripturally wrong.
(Meisha Deane)
Mark,
Why do you see the Barnhill’s being in the wrong? I am curious as to what you see wrong with it. My only issue with it was that the possible temptation of Jim with two women being in the house. It may not be the best dynamic for American culture, but there are many families all over the world that live in the same house. In Ukraine for instance there are two and three families living together in the same apartment. This is largely due to the fact that they cannot afford their own homes. I believe that was the case with Chris Dyson. I would also like to know where the theological problem is. Does the Bible teach there is to be only one family per house? My problem is a single woman living in the house of a couple, yet I’m not sure it is truly scripturally wrong.
(Meisha Deane)
I am almost fearful to say my true feelings on the video, due to the fact that I have a different view than what ABC does. I don't want to get kicked out of school. For me, Solomon's Porch is a community of believers that I, personally, agree with. When we study the life of Christ, we discover that relationships were very important, and was the center of His earthly ministry. Community is a relationship, and is what Christ asked us, as His followers, to do. I'm fearful that too many students have a one-way vision of the Church. I cannot base my total opinion on a five minute video, so for me to say whether they are 100% right or wrong would not be Christ-like. From what I saw, I would fit in and grow through the Holy Spirit at Solomon's Porch. I would say more, but I am seriously fearful that my opinions might cause uproar on the campus. (John Hyman)
Mark-
While reading your response to the video, I was a bit overwhelmed with your comment. For me, community is made up of relationships, and relationships are what the Church is founded on. Christ walked, talked, ate, taught, and slept with his disciples, and is an example to us today of what church must be. On the issue of Jim and Carla Barnhill, you stated that it was a "theological problem." Where is that found? I do not see helping and caring a fellow community/church member by letting them live with you as a problem with our Christian belief. Maybe I'm a little over the top for you, as well. (John Hyman)
Solomon Porch is a test and they acknowledge that, their name comes from the Bible. They eat and share their lives together. They are using the Church and Community as interchangeable. The people hunger for community, something that is real; the church can meet this need, if they follow the example of Christ. "the study of the life of Christ and we see that he intentionally entered into our world," says Rajendra Pilla. Christ bridged a relationship with those outside his normal acquaintance. I applaud how Solomon's Porch attempts to emulate that.(Thayer Lawson)
Mark,
We both tend to commend Solomon's Porch participant. I don't know how I would feel living around, or being around someone all day everyday, but that should be the attitude we have as Christians. Some churches waits anxiously for church to be over so they can go their separate ways, and may not see any of the other church members until the following sunday. But here at Solomon's Porch they all live together. Many churches would benefit from watching this blog.(thayer Lawson)
After reviewing the video I’ve decided that there are some positive aspects as well as some negative. The pastor seems to promote “Solomon’s Porch” as a church, highly involved in reaching the local community. I do believe that a large percentage of churches in the United States have failed in this area of ministry. However, I also believe it goes beyond the church, to the individual Christian. I think it would be accurate to say that there is large population of idle Christians, (standing cathedrals) in the United States; inactive without care or concern of the eternal state for the rest of humanity.
I had a difficult time trying to come to an understanding related to the female and her daughter moving into the young couple’s home. I haven’t found anything scripturally wrong except, that it could become a stumbling block or a negative influence to others around them.
Solomon’s Porch appeared to be a really comfortable setting concerning the cozy couches. Could they still maintain function or involvement without the bells and whistles, or in others, could they worship God without their comfy and snug setting? Who and what is really driving this ministry?
(Trey Hyman)
Meisha
You know the verses as well as I do. Come out from among them…, new creation…, good testimony…
Mark
John
The helping and caring, supporting and community is great I have no problem with all that. The Barnhills if they help out with a place to stay temporarily I see no problem with that. The problem is both of them indicated it was not only temporarily but more long term. Just what would constitute temporarily I am not sure but both seemed content to let it go on for a year or so. I would be concerned about what it would look like to the neighbors with them living together. I know Mexican families see it as acceptable and in their culture it would be fine. Neither were Mexican though.
I know in Utah they are even starting to get away from it because of the appearance. The outside world was not accepting it and all.
If it were short term until the other got stable fine. I just think that the church should help out then if it is more long term as they made it look.
Meisha,
I think Mark A. is trying to relay his concern about the Barnhill’s family situation as it becoming a stumbling block, a negative influence, or a negative representation of Christianity. The anonymous blogger stated that within other countries and cultures it is accepted, like within Ukraine. There is just a lot to consider concerning this situation. What message is it sending to others? (Respectfully, Trey Hyman)
Trey
Thanks for the life jacket;)
Mark
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