Thursday, January 31, 2008
Changing Face of Worship - Atlanta Response
Please view and respond to the video, "Changing Face of Worship - Atlanta," located on the course webiste at: http://mmcdaniel.jimdo.com/course_media.php. You will be required to respond to at least one other student's comments to successfully complete this assignment. Please ensure that you put your name in parenthesis if you post anonymously.
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12 comments:
Revolution Atlanta Ga. Little Five Points
First, I think he is simply in a form of rebellion against his parents and the way his family was treated, which is fair. I think he have a valid complaint his family was done wrong. However, everyone has been done wrong at one time or another and has their own struggles in life. By the definition of a dysfunctional family every family is dysfunctional, there is no perfect family. A family that struggles, and fights even, but gets through it, is functioning family. Some may function better than another, but getting through the differences is what makes it a functioning family.
I am glad he has a heart for the people he came out of; I wish more people did. However, he has not fully come out from it. I think he wants to see how close he can get to that life but not get immersed in it. No counselor or pastor or Alcoholics Anonymous representative or anyone would say, OK you have been free from Alcohol for seven years not so you can go back in and just hang around in the bars. He says, “We do just what other people do in a bar and that is just sit and hang out. You know I will just sit and have a cigar, and a glass of sweet tea. You know.” I don’t know of any bar that serves the non-alcoholic iced tea, not even for the designated driver, and if he drinks as much tea as I do water or soda, he is not bringing it into the bar. Not to mention no bar will let you bring in your own drinks.
I question how effective his ministry is also. He said they have a Bible study that is great however, the advice I’ve always heard is valid here, if you want to know how a Christian should act ask a non-Christian. The non-Christian usually has a better idea how a Christian should act than most Christian, because we tend to justify our actions. Furthermore, he says, “We just hang out with people. We just get to know people. That is where people are. Half the time we don’t even talk to them about Jesus, In fact, most of the time we don’t." (Bold Jay put emphasis on himself.) You know we just get to spend time to get to know them and let them get to see who we are. And if they are curious about who Christ is then we will share it with them.” (He shrugs his shoulders like it does not matter.) The only thing people will do is think you are a nice person, to hang out with. What kind of ministry is it that seldom, if ever, talks about Jesus? I think it strange; someone would think we are such a nice kind person and ask us to tell them about this Jesus that we normally never talk about anyway.
I am glad he has a heart and a ministry to include a Bible study with them. They are right, there are those there whom only they can reach, “those whom would not normally walk into a church.” I think their ministry would be a much more effective, to explain that they understand what others are going through. They themselves came out of that style of life, and they do not go to the bars for that reason. Instead they can go to the movies and coffee houses like they said, but not the bars. Without meaning to they are saying others can stop drinking and continue to go to bars and hang out. Maybe Jay can go in to the bars and not drink, however, there are many many more that can not do that, but would eventually start drinking again.
(Mark A.)
The Little Five points is a place where traditional Baptist wouldn't frequent, and to speak of having a Church there and Bible study would be unheard of. A Doctor is for the sick not the healthy and that's where the Revolution Church is focussing their ministry. Everybody's ministry is the same but there pattern to minister and proclaim the word of God is different. Mr Bakker went to the kids and he relates to the kids in their environment. He's there for the wounded, hurting and those that don't know about Christ, those that may be tired with their walk with Christ. Mr. Bakker is meeting them on their terms. That's not a ministry for everyone, but still a ministry by right. Those kids yearn and desire to seek the truth, knowledge, and they wouldn't walk into your regular Church. So they're meeting where they hang out, on their turf. And giving them the teaching of Christ without mentiong Christ. Sometimes you have to give them the truth and return later to give the credit of the truth, let them know where it originates, who's the author of the truth and hopefully they will come into realization of where the salvation come from. (Thayer Lawson)
Mark, I must comment on your response. Sure there are some aspects of Mr. Bakkers ministry I question, but who am I to question them. He did casually shrug, as if to brush the surface with the name of Jesus. I wrote my response before reading yours and we have some simlar views but not all. I have no desire to minister in the Little 5-point District, but the name of Jesus should be proclaimed everywhere, with no reservation. No reservation is my point. I don't feel Mr. Bakker should silence the name of Jesus and mention it only if asked. My impression was that he strategically shared the word, which a bible study in a club area district is. The effectiveness of his ministry I'm somewhat questioning but I don't think its my position to do so. I can't do nothing but commend Mr. Bakker for minstering somewhere I have no desire to be. (Thayer Lawson)
The video shows a ministry that most people at ABC would dare not venture into. I, for one, believe strongly, with a strong conviction for the Lord, that you've got to go where they're at to reach them. At Atlanta, Mr. Bakker has realized and innovated a method of outreach that works for his immediate culture. One point I do strongly disagree with is that he didn't mention Jesus' name in all conversations. Jesus should be first on the tip of your tongue, and at the forefront of every conversation. The video is true and real. For some people, it may seem over the edge to go into an environment where sin is very present. I strongly believe that it is where Christ asked us to go. People want to see real truth outside the Church doors. (John Hyman)
Thayer,
I feel like we have very close methods and philosophies relating to evangelism and missions. You did a wonderful job on summarizing the information given in the video. I believe that if we look to Jesus in every aspect of our lives, we will see that Christ wants, more than anything, for us to step outside the box to be an innovator in order to flip the world upside down for His namesake.
(John Hyman)
I would agree that friendship evangelism is a great thing. This is a new idea to me in my future ministry in Ukraine. The idea is to make friends and lay a foundation of trust. During this time we are to be letting the light of Christ flow through us to those we are befriending.
I also agree with the statement that we can come to Christ as we are. For when one comes to Christ He will take them as they are and then He will conform them into His image. Jesus did go out among the people and drew them to Himself; however He then said, “follow me.” Jesus knew that change would take place in the lives of those that believed on Him. I wonder once again if true change is taking place in the hearts of people. Are they following Christ? It was said in the video that people are seeking truth, but I wonder are they seeking life changing truth. We need to go out and tell people the gospel. When the Holy Spirit draws them and they believe then true change will be evident in their lives. (Meisha Deane)
Thayer
I am glad he has a heart for the people he came out of; I wish more people did. There is a Baptist equivalent of Alcoholics Anonymous I am just not sure what it is. I which we as Baptist did have more of a pronounced ministry there. It is like you said a Doctor is for the sick not the healthy, but even the doctor takes precautions to keep from getting affected himself.
It is not a question of ministry it is a question of effectiveness. I think their ministry would be a much more effective, to explain about leaving the sin which so easily entangles you. They themselves came out of that style of life, and they should not go to the bars for that reason. Instead they can go to the movies and coffee houses like they said, but not the bars. Maybe Jay can go in to the bars and not drink, however, when he does lead someone to faith, without sharing Jesus, how can he now tell them that they should not go to bars when he himself is going to bars.
Mark
John,
I agree with you in that Christ should be the first thing a Christian speaks of. It is very interesting that this is not the goal of the man in the video. It seems as though he wants to reach people without offending them to the point of his and their detriment. If one is a light for Christ they should be open and up front in their witnessing. This is to be done in love and if it is truly done through the Holy Spirit’s working people will respond positively. If our message is Christ then our words should bear that message, especially His name. (Meisha Deane)
Tattoos, Skateboards, and Piercings...OH MY! What a picture of blatant hell bound victims...how ridicilous a statement that is; yet it seems to be the mind set of so many Christians around me. This breaks my heart. We have a Five Points in Jacksonville. I used to love going down there and chillin with everybody. Yes, it is a quote unquote "subculture" but that does not make them any less human. their lifestyle does not make their souls any less worthy in God's eyes. They should be that same amount of precious to us!I think this is an awesome ministry. I do however have a few issues with this one in particular. The leader Jay(?) mentioned that he did not frequent the name of Jesus...HOW SAD! That should be the purpose and goal of his ministry...that aside...good thinking...and obeying! (Bethany)
Meisha...I love you...Preach It! (bethany)
This was a disturbing video. I’m astounded by what some are doing to tell people about Christ. I'm pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place on my opinion regarding this type of ministry. Yes, we are commissioned to go out and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all parts of the world but, we are also instructed to abstain from the passions of the flesh and from the appearance of evil (1 Pe2:11-12 and 1 Th5:22). Maybe it’s just my perspective, but how effective are you going to be in a surrounding where the typical intention at a bar is to get drunk. I’ve never seen or heard of someone getting saved drunk or under the influence of alcohol, much less remembering what had happened that night. There’s also the appearance factor. The fact is I’m kinda undecided concerning this type of outreach, I don’t want to limit God but I just find it hard to believe.
(Trey Hyman)
Meisha,
Your response to John’s comment was very well said. With any ministry it has to be led by the Holy Spirit. Question, if a ministry is Spirit led who does He lead? The people. What if a ministry is not Spirit led, who is leading it and who is it leading and to where? That is why it is vitally important to listen and to follow where He leads or else it’s in vain.
(Trey Hyman)
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